Interview with Marina Kaljurand, Member of the European Parliament:
Marina Kaljurand is an Estonian politician and Member of the European Parliament. She served as Minister of Foreign Affairs and earlier, she served as the Ambassador of Estonia to the United States, Russia, Mexico, Canada, Kazakhstan, and Israel. In September 2023, Peace for Asia’s Julia Vassileva had a conversation with her about the role of inclusion of women in peace and security, peace processes, and beyond.
Marina Kaljurand: It is needless to say how important it is to include women into the peace processes, negotiations and reconciliation processes. I think that EU has started to think more about this objective, maybe some 10-15 years ago. Of course, UN resolution 1325 was of huge impact and of huge help as it raised awareness and enshrined the need to include women in all those contexts.
I can say from my experience, when as a foreign minister, there have started to appear more and more women. But peace and security has long been a male dominated area. Luckily, I think I can say that the times are changing and that more and more women are included.
But, we lack good examples. I believe in role models, I believe in good examples. The EU itself can lead by example. And I am really hoping to see when more international organisations, such as the UN and NATO, with their first fenale secretary generals. Because that will be a symbol, that will be a role model demonstrating that women can contribute to peace and security equally to men.
What are the main challenges: why, despite all of the verbal commitments, do we still not see an equal inclusion of women in peace processes and beyond?
Marina Kaljurand: I think we do see increase of them. I would argue that if you look into the recent years, it is changing and improving. Maybe not so quickly, but it is changing. When I was ambassador to Russia in 2005, I was the only woman in Moscow. Today, I think one third are women. So, we see that women are entering diplomacy, women are entering security policy, and women are entering international negotiations more and more and more.
Why it’s not as speedy? To some extent maybe also because women themselves feel more comfortable in their traditional roles as teachers, doctors, housewives. So, we also have to change the young generation. Although the younger generation is already very different, more outspoken and with more opportunities. But still, I think they need more: women need more encouragement. And they need encouragement from other women, especially from women who are in the position to encourage and support them. It is still a male dominated and difficult world for younger women.
And if you are a young woman, there are so many stereotypes. It is difficult to prove yourself. But it is doable, and with the support of others, I think that encouraging, assisting, and being very frank about the difficulties, things can change and improve further.
So, you see a challenge for younger women, or women in general, who wish to be involved? Maybe not just in peace processes, but in foreign affairs and generally?
Marina Kaljurand: Yes. I often give the example of when I was foreign minister of Estonia, and when I was interviewing young people who wanted to enter the diplomatic service… When I asked young boys or men, ‘Why do you want to come to foreign service?’ They had immediate answers. ‘We want to be ambassadors, we want to be foreign ministers.’ They knew what they wanted. And when I asked the same question from young ladies, they were much more hesitant. They seemed less ambitious then men were. They were saying things about loving foreign countries, cultures, moving around, contributing to different fields, but nobody seemed to be saying, ‘I want to be ambassador’, or ‘I want to be foreign minister’ or ‘I want to be un Secretary General’. I should stress that this was 10 years ago. So maybe it is changing now because indeed, I haven’t interviewed anybody recently. And when I talk to the younger generation of women, they are already a bit different, more self-confident and empowered… But still, I can imagine it is difficult. I think a lot has to be done at home to encourage daughters and to raise daughters so that they do not have any barriers and they know that they can achieve as much as boys can do.
Do you think that the EU has a role in engaging in those dialogues with civil society, academia, taking these into account?
Marina Kaljurand: Oh, that is my very subjective understanding. But I think that EU is doing well in engaging with them. Here in the Parliament, there are many lobby groups. And when I meet the lobby groups, I see more and more women lobby groups. And women lobbying not only education and health, but coming to lobby on security, on foreign policy, and other issues. So, in Brussels I see lots of them.
I see that women are vocal in the EU. They are not afraid to take positions. And they speak up. On difficult topics. The women’s organizations that are speaking are outspoken and they have good examples and good data. They are well prepared. And I think this is important, I think it’s important that women are also learning more and more how to present their positions and how to find data to support their positions. So here in Brussels, I see lots of women organizations with which we communicate.
What can the EU do to ensure better inclusion of women in peace processes more generally and beyond?
Marina Kaljurand: I believe that the EU can lead by example. In different contexts of conflict, the EU can bring different people and nationalities together and foster dialogue.
For me it’s also the measurement of how many women there are in politics. For me, security as such, peace as such, is connected to politics. If you have only 30 per cent women in parliament, that is not enough! We have to have half. And I think that if we can’t attract women to politics, then it’s also difficult to attract women to diplomacy and to security policy. But it’s difficult to be in politics today. Often, it is very subjective and there are many stereotypes. It is about simple, trivial things, for example: Everybody’s talking about your purse, your haircut, your weight. Questions that are never discussed about men.
I think that women need encouragement to speak up. Because very often, they are not the first ones to speak. It happens to me too. We need encouragement and we need that self-confidence speak up. I would say that the European Parliament from that perspective, is an excellent place to exercise. And if I look at the women, everybody’s a personality, and they are not shy ones. They speak up, and they are real role models to others.
I think we have to teach girls to speak up. So that if there are conversations and discussions, girls can ask questions. And we should encourage them to ask the first question, which is always the most difficult one to ask. To believe in themselves and to speak up.